第二十九章: 马克思 Marx

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And now Sophie had invited people to a philosophical garden party on the very day her father was due back from Lebanon. Hilde was convinced something would happen that day which neither she nor her father were quite sure of.
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… a spectre is haunting Europe…
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Hilde got off her bed and went to the window facing the bay. When she had started to read this Saturday, it was still Sophie's fifteenth birthday. The day before had been Hilde's own birthday.
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If her father had imagined that she would get as far as Sophie's birthday yesterday, he had certainly not been realistic. She had done nothing but read all day long. But he was right that there would only be one more birthday greeting. It was when Alberto and Sophie had sung Happy Birthday to her. Very embarrassing, Hilde thought.
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But one thing was certain: before her father got home to Bjerkely he would get a scare. That was the least she could do for Sophie and Alberto, especially after they had appealed for help…
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Her mother was still down in the boathouse. Hilde ran downstairs to the telephone. She found Anne and Ole's number in Copenhagen and called them.
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"Won't that be great, Hilde!"
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"Anne Kvamsdal."
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She would now have to begin some preparations of her own. But there was still plenty of time.
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"It's kind of a special favor. I'm not even sure if it's possible."
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"It is?"
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Hilde began to describe her plan. She told Anne about the ring binder, about Sophie and Alberto and all the rest. She had to backtrack several times because either she or Anne were laughing too hard. But when Hilde hung up, her plan was in operation.
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"I think he's landing at Kastrup around 5 p. m. on Saturday the 23rd. Will you be in Copenhagen then?"
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"Hi, this is Hilde."
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"I was wondering if you could do something for me."
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Hilde spent the remainder of the afternoon and the evening with her mother. They ended up driving to Kris-tiansand and going to the movies. They felt they had some catching up to do since they had not done anything special the day before. As they drove past the exit to Kjevik airport, a few more pieces of the big jigsaw puzzle Hilde was constructing fell into place.
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"Oh, how are you? How are things in Lillesand?"
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"Yes, I'm looking forward to it. That's actually why I'm calling…"
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"Why, of course."
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"Now you're making me curious…"
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"Fine, with vacation and everything. And Dad gets back from Lebanon in a week."
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"I think so."
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"Me too. I'm counting the days."
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When Sophie slipped out of the den through the hedge it was almost eight o'clock. Her mother was weeding the flowerbeds by the front door when Sophie appeared. "Where did you spring from?"
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"But where have you been, Sophie? This is the second time you've just disappeared without leaving any message."
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Was there a touch of sharpness in her voice? To be on the safe side, Sophie said: "I'm glad I invited Joanna's parents too. Otherwise it might be a bit embarrassing."
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"As a matter of fact, I have. I told you he likes going for long walks."
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Her mother rose from the pile of weeds and gave her a severe look.
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"I'm sorry, Mom. It was such a lovely day, I went for a long walk."
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"I came through the hedge."
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"You haven't been with that philosopher again?"
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"Didn't you know there was a path on the other side?"
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"Through the hedge?"
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"But he is coming to the garden party, isn't he?"
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"Oh yes, he's looking forward to it."
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It was late before she went to bed that night, but she took the ring binder and read on.
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"There is?"
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Sophie rushed inside. The envelope was stamped June 15, 1990. She opened it and took out a little note: What matters our creative endless toil, When at a snatch, oblivion ends the coil?
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"On top of the fridge."
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"It must be from Alberto's brother."
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Sophie's brain worked overtime. But in a flash she hit on a plausible answer It was as though she was getting inspiration from some guiding spirit.
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"I told Alberto I collect rare postmarks. And brothers also have their uses."
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Her mother seemed to be reassured.
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"I don't know… but whatever happens, I am going to have a talk with this Alberto as one adult to another."
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"Dinner's in the fridge," she said in a slightly more amicable tone.
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"You can borrow my room if you like. I'm sure you'll like him."
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"It's got to stop, Sophie!"
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"Where's the letter?"
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"And another thing. There's a letter for you."
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"It's stamped UN Battalion."
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Indeed, Sophie had no answer to that question. Before she ate, she put the note in the closet together with all the other stuff she had collected in the past weeks. She would learn soon enough why the question had been asked.
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When Sophie's mother got home from work they were still talking about it. Her mother kept saying: "Don't worry about what it costs." And she was not being sarcastic!
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The following morning Joanna came by. After a game of badminton, they got down to planning the philosophical garden party. They needed to have some surprises on hand in case the party flopped at any point.
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Before the evening was over they had agreed on everything, from paper lanterns to a philosophical quiz with a prize. The prize should preferably be a book about philosophy for young people. If there was such a thing! Sophie was not at all sure.
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Perhaps she was thinking that a "philosophical garden party" was just what was needed to bring Sophie down to earth again after her many weeks of intensive philosophical studies.
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"And Alberto."
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"Oh, hi! How are you?"
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"Very well indeed, thank you. I think I have found an excellent way out."
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Two days before Midsummer Eve, on Thursday, June 21, Alberto called Sophie again.
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"Way out of what?"
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"Sophie."
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"I get it."
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"Won't it be too late then? I need to know what I am involved in."
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"Now you're being na'i've. All our conversations are being overheard. The most sensible thing would be to say nothing."
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"But we must make the most of the time both today and tomorrow. On Saturday the balloon goes up. Can you come over right now?"
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"It's as bad as that, huh?"
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"Ssh!"
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"We are living our lives in a fictional reality behind the words in a long story. Each single letter is being written on an old portable typewriter by the major. Nothing that is in print can therefore escape his attention."
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"Naturally, my child. The most important things must happen when we are not talking."
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"What?"
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"Oh, that."
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"Oh."
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"No, I realize that. But how are we going to hide from him?"
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"There's something going on between the lines as well. That's just where I'm trying to be tricky, with every crafty ruse I know."
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"You know what. A way out of the mental captivity we have lived in for much too long."
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"But I cannot say a word about the plan before it is set in motion."
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Then she slipped through the hedge and out to the path on the far side. A little way further on she suddenly caught sight of a spacious desk standing in the midst of the heather. An elderly man was sitting at it, apparently adding up figures. Sophie went over to him and asked his name.
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Sophie fed the birds and the fish and found a large lettuce leaf for Govinda. She opened a can of cat food for Sher-ekan and put it out in a bowl on the step as she left.
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"I'm on my way."
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"Ebenezer Scrooge," he said, poring over his ledgers again.
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He nodded. "And immensely rich. Not a penny must go to waste. That's why I have to concentrate on my accounts."
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"My name is Sophie. You are a businessman, I presume?"
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"Why bother?"
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Sophie waved and walked on. But she had not gone many yards before she noticed a little girl sitting quite alone under one of the tall trees. She was dressed in rags, and looked pale and ill. As Sophie walked by, she thrust her hand into a little bag and pulled out a box of matches.
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"Will you buy some matches?" she asked, holding them out to Sophie. Sophie felt in her pockets to see if she had any money with her. Yes -- she found a crown.
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She took the girl's hand and walked with her back to the rich man.
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"What do you mean by that?"
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"Come here," said Sophie.
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"Bah! Humbug! Justice only exists between equals."
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"You must see to it that this girl gets a better life," she said.
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"You are the first person to buy anything from me for over a hundred years. Sometimes I starve to death, and other times the frost does away with me."
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"How much are they?"
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"One crown."
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The man glanced up from his paperwork and said: "That kind of thing costs money, and I said not so much as a penny must go to waste."
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Sophie thought it was perhaps not surprising if the sale of matches was not especially brisk here in the woods. But then she came to think of the businessman she had just passed. There was no reason for the little match girl to die of starvation when he was so wealthy.
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Sophie gave the girl the coin and stood there, with the box of matches in her hand.
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"But it's not fair that you're so rich when this girl is so poor," insisted Sophie. "It's unjust!"
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"I had to work my way up, and it has paid off. Progress, they call it."
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"If you don't help me, I'll die," said the poor girl.
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The businessman looked up again from his ledgers. Then he threw his quill pen onto the table impatiently.
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"If you don't help me, I'll set fire to the woods," the girl persisted.
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"You don't figure in my accounts! So -- be off with you -- to the poorhouse!"
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The man threw up his arms. "God help me!" he shouted. "The red cock has crowed!"
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That brought the man to his feet, but the girl had already struck one of her matches. She held it to a tuft of dry grass which flared up instantly.
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The next minute, the girl, the businessman, and the desk had disappeared. Sophie was once again standing alone while the flames consumed the dry grass ever more hungrily. It took her a while to put out the fire by stamping on it.
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The girl looked up at him with a playful smile. "You didn't know I was a communist, did you?"
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Thank goodness! Sophie glanced down at the blackened grass. She was holding a box of matches in her hand.
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She couldn't have started the fire herself, could she?
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"Scrooge was the miserly capitalist in A Christmas Carol, by Charles Dickens. You probably remember the little match girl from the tale by Hans Christian Andersen."
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"I didn't expect to meet them here in the woods."
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When she met Alberto outside the cabin she told him what had happened.
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Today, both bottles were standing on the mantelpiece. There was a miniature model of a Greek temple on the table.
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Once again they sat at the little table by the window facing the lake. Sophie could still feel all over her body how she had experienced the little lake after having drunk from the blue bottle.
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"All in good time, my dear."
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"Why not? These are no ordinary woods, and now we are going to talk about Karl Marx. It is most appropriate that you have witnessed an example of the tremendous class struggles of the mid-nineteenth century. But let's go inside. We are a little more protected from the major's interference there."
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"What's that?" asked Sophie.
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Alberto began to talk: "When Kierkegaard went to Berlin in 1841, he might have sat next to Karl Marx at Schel-ling's lectures. Kierkegaard had written a master of arts thesis on Socrates. About the same time, Marx had written a doctoral thesis on Democritus and Epicurus -- in other words, on the materialism of antiquity. Thus they had both staked out the course of their own philosophies."
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"It was probably too high-flown for them."
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"Marx became what is known as a historical materialist. But we'll come back to that."
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"Because Kierkegaard became an existentialist and Marx became a materialist?"
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"Go on."
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"Each in his own way, both Kierkegaard and Marx took Hegel's philosophy as their point of departure. Both were influenced by Hegel's mode of thought, but both rejected his 'world spirit,' or his idealism."
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"After meeting Scrooge and the little match girl, I have no problem understanding what Marx meant."
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"Definitely. In general, we usually say that the era of the great philosophical systems ended with Hegel. After him, philosophy took a new direction. Instead of great speculative systems, we had what we call an existential philosophy or a philosophy of action. This was what Marx meant when he observed that until now, 'philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways; the point is to change it.' These words mark a significant turning point in the history of philosophy."
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"Marx's thinking had a practical -- or political -- objective. He was not only a philosopher; he was a historian, a sociologist, and an economist."
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"Was Jesus a Christian?"
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"And he was a forerunner in all these areas?"
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"Carry on."
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"That, too, of course, is debatable."
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"Certainly no other philosopher had greater significance for practical politics. On the other hand, we must be wary of identifying everything that calls itself Marxism with Marx's own thinking. It is said of Marx that he only became a Marxist in the mid-1840s, but even after that he could at times feel it necessary to assert that he was not a Marxist."
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"Right from the start, his friend and colleague Friedrich Engels contributed to what was subsequently known as Marxism. In our own century, Lenin, Stalin, Mao and many others also made their contribution to Marxism, or Marxism-Leninism."
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"He was not a philosophical materialist like the atomists of antiquity nor did he advocate the mechanical materialism of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. But he thought that, to a great extent, it was the material factors in society which determined the way we think. Material factors of that nature have certainly been decisive for historical development."
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"I suggest we try to stick to Marx himself. You said he was a historical materialist?"
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"Do you have an example?"
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"That was quite different from Hegel's world spirit."
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"Hegel called the force that drives history forward world spirit or world reason. This, Marx claimed, is upside down. He wished to show that material changes are the ones that affect history. 'Spiritual relations' do not create material change, it is the other way about. Material change creates new spiritual relations. Marx particularly emphasized that it was the economic forces in society that created change and thus drove history forward."
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"Hegel had pointed out that historical development is driven by the tension between opposites -- which is then resolved by a sudden change. Marx developed this idea further. But according to Marx, Hegel was standing on his head."
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"Not all the time, I hope."
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"Antiquity's philosophy and science were purely theoretical in purpose. Nobody was particularly interested in putting new discoveries into practice."
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"They weren't?"
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"That was because of the way the economic life of the community was organized. Production was mainly based on slave labor, so the citizens had no need to increase production with practical innovations. This is an example of how material relations help to affect philosophical reflection in society."
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"Yes, I see."
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"But the roof cannot float in thin air."
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"On the video, you mean."
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"The building has very powerful foundations -- its bases -- supporting the entire construction. In the same way, Marx believed that material relations support, so to speak, everything in the way of thoughts and ideas in society. Society's superstructure is in fact a reflection of the bases of that society."
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"You can see that the construction has a very elegant and elaborate roof. Probably the roof with its front gable is what strikes one first. This is what we call the superstructure."
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Sophie did so.
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"Marx called these material, economic, and social relations the basis of society. The way a society thinks, what kind of political institutions there are, which laws it has and, not least, what there is of religion, morals, art, philosophy, and science, Marx called society's superstructure."
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"And now you will perhaps be good enough to pass me the Greek temple."
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"This is a model of the Parthenon temple on the Acropolis. You have also seen it in real life."
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"Basis and superstructure, right."
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"It is supported by the columns."
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"The columns are standing on a base that consists of three levels -- or steps."
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"Yes, a little. Could you describe the bases of the temple?"
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"No, it's not that simple, as Marx expressly points out. It is the interactive effect of society's basis on its superstructure. If Marx had rejected this interaction, he would have been a mechanical materialist. But because Marx realized that there was an interactive or dialectic relation between bases and superstructure, we say that he is a dialectical materialist. By the way, you may care to note that Plato was neither a potter nor a wine grower."
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"Are you saying that Plato's theory of ideas is a reflection of vase production and wine growing?"
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"In the same manner we will identify three levels in the bases of society. The most basic level is what we may call society's conditions of production. In other words, the natural conditions or resources that are available to society. These are the foundation of any society, and this foundation clearly determines the type of production in the society, and by the same token, the nature of that society and its culture in general."
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"All right. Do you have any more to say about the temple?"
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"You can't have a herring trade in the Sahara, or grow dates in northern Norway."
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"You've got it. And the way people think in a nomadic culture is very different from the way they think in a fishing village in northern Norway The next level is the society's means of production. By this Marx meant the various kinds of equipment, tools, and machinery, as well as the raw materials to be found there."
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"In the old days people rowed out to the fishing grounds. Nowadays they use huge trawlers to catch the fish."
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"Yes, and here you are talking about the next level in the base of society, namely, those who own the means of production. The division of labor, or the distribution of work and ownership, was what Marx called society's 'production relations.'"
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"I see."
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"So far we can conclude that it is the mode of production in a society which determines which political and ideological conditions are to be found there. It is not by chance that today we think somewhat differently -- and have a somewhat different moral codex -- from the old feudal society."
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"I could never have put up with my parents deciding who I was to marry."
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"No, the question of what was morally right, according to Marx, is a product of the base of society. For example, it is not accidental that in the old peasant society, parents would decide whom their children married. It was a question of who was to inherit the farm. In a modern city, social relations are different. Nowadays you can meet your future spouse at a party or a disco, and if you are sufficiently in love, you'll find somewhere to live."
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"So Marx didn't believe in a natural right that was eternally valid."
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"No, that's because you are a child of your time. Marx emphasized moreover that it is mainly society's ruling class that sets the norms for what is right or wrong. Because 'the history of all hitherto existing societies is the history of class struggles.' In other words, history is principally a matter of who is to own the means of production."
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"Yes and no. Marx understood that conditions in society's superstructure could have an interactive effect on the base of society, but he denied that society's superstructure had any independent history of its own. What has driven historical development from the slave society of antiquity to the industrial society of today has primarily been determined by changes in the base of society."
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"Don't people's thoughts and ideas help to change history?"
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"Marx was especially interested in the transition from a capitalist to a communist society. He also carried out a detailed analysis of the capitalist mode of production. But before we look at that, we must say something about Marx's view of man's labor."
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"Go ahead."
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"So you said."
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"Marx believed that in all phases of history there has been a conflict between two dominant classes of society. In antiquity's slave society, the conflict was between free citizen and slave. In the feudal society of the Middle Ages, it was between feudal lord and serf; later on, between aristocrat and citizen. But in Marx's own time, in what he called a bourgeois or capitalist society, the conflict was first and foremost between the capitalists and the workers, or the proletariat. So the conflict stood between those who own the means of production and those who do not. And since the 'upper classes' do not voluntarily relinquish their power, change can only come about through revolution."
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"What about a communist society?"
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"Before he became a communist, the young Marx was preoccupied with what happens to man when he works. This was something Hegel had also analyzed. Hegel believed there was an interactive, or dialectic, relationship between man and nature. When man alters nature, he himself is altered. Or, to put it slightly differently, when man works, he interacts with nature and transforms it. But in the process nature also interacts with man and transforms his consciousness."
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"That, briefly, was Marx's point. How we work affects our consciousness, but our consciousness also affects the way we work. You could say it is an interactive relationship between hand and consciousness. Thus the way you think is closely connected to the job you do."
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"Yes. A person who is unemployed is, in a sense, empty. Hegel was aware of this early on. To both Hegel and Marx, work was a positive thing, and was closely connected with the essence of mankind."
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"So it must be depressing to be unemployed."
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"So it must also be positive to a worker?"
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"What was that?"
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"Under the capitalist system, the worker labors for someone else. His labor is thus something external to him -- or something that does not belong to him. The worker becomes alien to his work -- but at the same time also alien to himself. He loses touch with his own reality. Marx says, with a Hegelian expression, that the worker becomes alienated."
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"Tell me what you do and I'll tell you who you are."
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"Yes, originally. But this is precisely where Marx aimed his criticism of the capitalist method of production."
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"I have an aunt who has worked in a factory, packaging candy for over twenty years, so I can easily understand what you mean. She says she hates going to work, every single morning."
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"But if she hates her work, Sophie, she must hate herself, in a sense."
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"She hates candy, that's for sure."
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"Is it really that bad?"
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"In a capitalist society, labor is organized in such a way that the worker in fact slaves for another social class. Thus the worker transfers his own labor -- and with it, the whole of his life -- to the bourgeoisie."
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"We're talking about Marx, and we must therefore take our point of departure in the social conditions during the middle of the last century. So the answer must be a resounding yes. The worker could have a 12-hour working day in a freezing cold production hall. The pay was often so poor that children and expectant mothers also had to work. This led to unspeakable social conditions. In many places, part of the wages was paid out in the form of cheap liquor, and women were obliged to supplement their earnings by prostitution. Their customers were the respected citizenry of the town. In short, in the precise situation that should have been the honorable hallmark of mankind, namely work, the worker was turned into a beast of burden."
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"That sounds frightening."
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"That infuriates me!"
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"Ugh! How unjust!"
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"It infuriated Marx too. And while it was happening, the children of the bourgeoisie played the violin in warm, spacious living rooms after a refreshing bath. Or they sat at the piano while waiting for their four-course dinner. The violin and the piano could have served just as well as a diversion after a long horseback ride."
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"It frightened the bourgeoisie too. Because now the proletariat was beginning to revolt. Would you like to hear how the Manifesto ends?"
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"Marx would have agreed. Together with Engels, he published a Communist Manifesto in 1848. The first sentence in this manifesto says: A spectre is haunting Europe -- the spectre of Communism."
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"The Communists disdain to conceal their views and aims. They openly declare that their ends can be attained only by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Workingmen of all countries, unite!"
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"Yes, please."
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"If conditions were as bad as you say, I think I would have signed that Manifesto. But conditions are surely a lot different today?"
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"In Norway they are, but they aren't everywhere. Many people still live under inhuman conditions while they continue to produce commodities that make capitalists richer and richer. Marx called this exploitation."
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"Yes."
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"If you now deduct the workers' wages and the other production costs from the exchange-value, there will always be a certain sum left over. This sum was what Marx called profit. In other words, the capitalist pockets a value that was actually created by the worker. That is what is meant by exploitation."
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"If a worker produces a commodity, this commodity has a certain exchange-value."
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"I see."
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"Could you explain that word, please?"
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"That sounds logical."
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"So now the capitalist invests some of his profit in new capital -- for instance, in modernizing the production plant in the hope of producing his commodity even more cheaply, and thereby increasing his profit in the future."
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"Yes, it can seem logical. But both in this and in other areas, in the long term it will not go the way the capitalist has imagined."
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"Marx believed there were a number of inherent contradictions in the capitalist method of production. Capitalism is an economic system which is self-destructive because it lacks rational control."
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"I get it."
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"No doubt."
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"But he is not the only one thinking in this way, which means that production as a whole is continually being made more effective. Factories become bigger and bigger, and are gradually concentrated in fewer and fewer hands. What happens then, Sophie?"
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"That's good, isn't it, for the oppressed?"
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"We said that the capitalist had a good surplus of money, and he uses part of this surplus to modernize the factory. But he also spends money on violin lessons. Moreover, his wife has become accustomed to a luxurious way of life."
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"How do you mean?"
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"Yes; it is inherent in the capitalist system that it is marching toward its own destruction. In that sense, capitalism is 'progressive' because it is a stage on the way to communism."
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"Can you give an example of capitalism being self-destructive?"
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"He buys new machinery and so no longer needs so many employees. He does this to increase his competitive power."
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"Fewer and fewer workers are required, which means there are more and more unemployed. There are therefore increasing social problems, and crises such as these are a signal that capitalism is marching toward its own destruction. But capitalism has a number of other self-destructive elements. Whenever profit has to be tied up in the means of production without leaving a big enough surplus to keep production going at competitive prices…"
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"Er…"
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"Yes?"
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",… what does the capitalist do then? Can you tell me?"
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"No, I'm afraid I can't."
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"Maybe I could cut down on wages?"
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"Imagine if you were a factory owner. You cannot make ends meet. You cannot buy the raw materials you need to keep producing. You are facing bankruptcy. So now my question is, what can you do to economize?"
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"Smart! Yes, that really is the smartest thing you could do. But if all capitalists were as smart as you -- and they are -- the workers would be so poor that they couldn't afford to buy goods any more. We would say that purchasing power is falling. And now we really are in a vicious circle. The knell has sounded for capitalist private property, Marx would say. We are rapidly approaching a revolutionary situation."
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"And then what?"
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"Yes, I see."
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"It all sounds wonderful, but what actually happened? Was there a revolution?"
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"To make a long story short, in the end the proletariat rises and takes over the means of production."
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"For a period, we get a new 'class society' in which the proletarians suppress the bourgeoisie by force. Marx called this the dictatorship of the proletariat. But after a transition period, the dictatorship of the proletariat is replaced by a 'classless society,' in which the means of production are owned 'by all'-- that is, by the people themselves. In this kind of society, the policy is 'from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.' Moreover, labor now belongs to the workers themselves and capitalism's alienation ceases."
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"Yes and no. Today, economists can establish that Marx was mistaken on a number of vital issues, not least his analysis of the crises of capitalism. And he paid insufficient attention to the plundering of the natural environment -- the serious consequences of which we are experiencing today. Nevertheless…"
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"Nevertheless?"
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"But didn't it create a new form of oppression? For example in Russia and Eastern Europe?"
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"What happened?"
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"Marxism led to great upheavals. There is no doubt that socialism has largely succeeded in combating an inhumane society. In Europe, at any rate, we live in a society with more justice -- and more solidarity -- than Marx did. This is not least due to Marx himself and the entire socialist movement."
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"After Marx, the socialist movement split into two main streams, Social Democracy and Leninism. Social Democracy, which has stood for a gradual and peaceful path in the direction of socialism, was Western Europe's way. We might call this the slow revolution. Leninism, which retained Marx's belief that revolution was the only way to combat the old class society, had great influence in Eastern Europe, Asia, and Africa. Each in their own way, both movements have fought against hardship and oppression."
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"No doubt of that, and here again we see that everything man touches becomes a mixture of good and evil. On the other hand, it would be unreasonable to blame Marx for the negative factors in the so-called socialist countries fifty or a hundred years after his death. But maybe he had given too little thought to the people who would be the administrators of communist society. There will probably never be a 'promised land.' Mankind will always create new problems to fight about."
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"Hey, wait a minute! Didn't you say something about justice only existing among equals?"
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"They are obliged to consider absolutely every detail, because as soon as they reach an agreement -- and everybody has signed the laws -- they will all drop dead."
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"I wouldn't mind at all being on that council."
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"A moral philosopher called John Rawls attempted to say something about it with the following example: Imagine you were a member of a distinguished council whose task it was to make all the laws for a future society."
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"Your wretched irony again!"
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"And there we bring down the curtain on Marx, Sophie."
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"But back to justice. You said that Marx thought capitalism was an unjust form of society. How would you define a just society?"
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"Oh…"
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"Oh well -- you and I have the same author. In actual fact we are more closely linked to each other than we would appear to the casual observer."
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"Double, Sophie, that was double irony."
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"How do you know what he said?"
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"No, it was Scrooge who said that."
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"I'm sure it will."
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"Hm… that's a good question."
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"Excuse me?"
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"So tell me, was the Europe of Karl Marx a society like that?"
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"Think about it. But for now there will be no more about Marx."
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"That goes without saying. None of them knew whether they would wake up as men or women. Since the odds are fifty-fifty, society would be just as attractive for women as for men."
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"Next chapter!"
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"But do you by any chance know of such a society today?"
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"It sounds promising."
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"Absolutely not!"
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"Ah, I see."
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"Men and women!"
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"But they will immediately come to life again in the society they have legislated for. The point is that they have no idea which position they will have in society."
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"That society would be a just society. It would have arisen among equals."
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